larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
Rank: Platinum Critic
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 6/9/2005 12:17:18 AM
I hate to restart an previous thread, but I looked through 11 pages and couldn't find the old one.
But it's all good because I have new info.
I finally opened up the 2004 annual report for Six Falgs and it lists the amount of land each park sits upon, so here is the breakdown by park.
Six Flags America - SF owns 515 acres with 131 acres currently used for park operations, the remianing 384 acres are zoned for recreation and entertainment purposes (I believe they have sold off some of this land since)
Six Flags Astroworld - Astroworld = 100 acres (no room for expansion), Splashtown = 60 acres
Six Flags Darien Lake - 940 acres, 144 acres are theme park, 242 acres are campgrounds, 594 acres agricultural, water or undeveloped
Six Flags Elitch Gardens - 67 acres (no room for expansion)
Six Flags Fiesta Texas - 206 acres (report doesn't say how much is currently used for park operations) From personal recollection, I don't recall the park having much room for expansion within the quarry walls but maybe they could put a skyride to the top of the quarry wall and put some rides up there.
Six Flags Great Adventure - owns 2,200 acres, 240 acres currenlty used for theme park, 45 acres currently used for Hurricane Harbor, 304 acres currently used for Wild Safari
Six Flags Great America - own 300 acres of which 92 are used for the theme park operations (Personally the park seemed much bigger to me, tat must be a typo in the Annual Report)
Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom - SF owns 20 acres and leases another 38 acres from the Kentucky Fair and Expo Center
Six Flags Magic Mountain - own 260 acres, 160 acres used for the theme park, 12 acres used for Hurricane Harbor
Six Flags Marine World - Six Flags does not the 138 acres
Six Flags New England - SF owns 230 acres, 127 acres currently used for park operations, 12 acres of picnic groves and 91 acres of undeveloped land
Six Flags New Orleans - Six Flags rents the 140 acres that the park sits on, but Six Flags owns on adjacent 66 acre plot that can be used for complementary purposes
Six Flags over Georgia - theme park sits on 280 acres of which 85 acres are undeveloped. SF White Water Atlanta sits on 69 acres of which 12 acres are undeveloped
Six Flags over Texas - theme park sits on 200 acres (does say how many remain undeveloped). Hurricane Harbor sits on 47 acres with only 2 acres undeveloped.
Six Flags St. Louis - SF owns 497 acres and only 132 are used for park operations
Enchanted Village and Wild Waves - SF owns a combined 65 acres
LaRonde - SF owns the 146 acres with no room for expansion
Frontier City - SF owns 109 acres with the theme park sitting 55 acres
Great Escape - Great Escape property includes 357 acres with 132 currently used for park operations but only 32 of the remaining acres are suitable for park expansion.
Sorry I'm to tired to include the stand only water parks parks, but this addresses the original topic of which praks have room to expand.
what is unclear is if the undeveloped acres are inclusive of parking lots. I may have to call investor relations
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Mom always said, "Don't play ball in the house".
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sfo1
Posts: 5359
Registered: 7/22/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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6/9/2005 12:39:02 AM
Wow, that is sure an interesting report. Also one that probably solves years of questions about how much expansion is possible for some parks.
Wow, amazing that GADv sits on 2200 acres. I had no idea it was that huge.
Hmmm....Elitch is obviously in a bad position...
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MagnumMan
Posts: 1286
Registered: 1/20/2002
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6/9/2005 12:02:22 PM
Elitch is screwed...that's all I can say. One of the worst decisions in park history was to move the park into DOWNTOWN DENVER. Didn't the owners weigh the pros and cons? Go figure...
I hate hearing that SF Darien Lake has so much room around it because I knew it was the truth. You can see all the space around the park when you drive by the area. It's in the middle of nowhere, for those who don't know (About a mile and a half away from the nearest exit). It's so sad that they are only developing heavily on 2 parks in the chain (3 Guesses Which Ones...) and leaving the others in the dust. I'm sure that has to result in a significant loss. It's common sense. Attendance just doesn't INCREASE when you don't add anything (of significance) to parks in years. Yet the company raises admission prices and cuts hours? They might as well just sell the parks "don't prefer" and save those, who look and see what's happening elsewhere in the company, the aggravation.
The two "main" parks, so to speak, cannot compensate for the losses in all of the other parks combined, can they? If so...then I guess SF is making the right financial choices. If not, which is probably the case, then no wonder they are in so much financial trouble and have so little customer satifaction (so I hear). Complete idiots are running the company. That's what I think.
BTW: Good find, larrygator. I love reading stuff like this...
Message updated 6/9/2005 12:09:06 PM by MagnumMan
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
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6/9/2005 4:15:28 PM
SFNE is missleading. 60 of the Undiveloped land they own is a mile or so down the Street in CT. they have a few hundred houses between them and that land.
Great info though thanks for the post.
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
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6/10/2005 12:37:25 AM
Quote:
mrceagle said:
SFNE is missleading. 60 of the Undiveloped land they own is a mile or so down the Street in CT. they have a few hundred houses between them and that land.
Great info though thanks for the post. |
Just throw an idea out there. Could they turn the undeveloped land into a parking lot (and tram people to the park like BGW) and expand rides into the existing parking lot?
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
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6/10/2005 10:38:59 AM
Quote:
sfo1 said:
Wow, that is sure an interesting report. Also one that probably solves years of questions about how much expansion is possible for some parks.
Wow, amazing that GADv sits on 2200 acres. I had no idea it was that huge.
Hmmm....Elitch is obviously in a bad position... |
Great Adventure doesn't actually sit on 2200 acres. If you read it, it is only using about 600 acres of that land. They own a lot more, but 1. The park is freakin' huge already and 2. The will have a hard time getting permits and stuff to expand on it all. Of course, I did say that the park is huge, but, with the amount of people that they get every year, I guess they really could use the boost in capacity. Then again, they need money to expand. Oh wait, money was and has never been a factor in major expansion which is why the corporation is in debt.
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"I could never design another ride like Hercules." - Curtis Summers
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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6/10/2005 9:32:47 PM
Quote:
larrygator said:
Just throw an idea out there. Could they turn the undeveloped land into a parking lot (and tram people to the park like BGW) and expand rides into the existing parking lot? |
Teh land is well down the street in CT not MA. it would take allot of permisions and adapting of the traims to be street leagl. also the Houses are keeping allot of expandign of the park from being done past BAtman and SFNE stupidly wants to expand the water park even farther.
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Scott
Posts: 2766
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6/10/2005 11:46:20 PM
Quote:
Elitch is screwed...that's all I can say. One of the worst decisions in park history was to move the park into DOWNTOWN DENVER. Didn't the owners weigh the pros and cons? Go figure...
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That sucks. I did some research the other night. The reason that elitch's moved to that spot is that the city of denver offered them a fantastic deal. The land was dirt cheap. I guess that's why they bought it. 
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MagnumMan
Posts: 1286
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6/12/2005 11:04:28 PM
...Ok...
Yeah, the land was cheap...as the entire piece is landlocked! And taxes may be lowered but so will their attendance over time. After a while, the move will prove not to have been worth the effort. So it sorta makes sense, right?
So the price that they paid for a brand new plot of land + the cost of moving the rides + the cost of completely re-landscaping the entire plot of land (sort of...there's only so much you can do in an urban setting) was less than just buying additional land for expansion? Any way you put it, that's INSANE.
Message updated 6/12/2005 11:05:52 PM by MagnumMan
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
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6/13/2005 2:21:17 AM
So take out the water park or most of it and add rides. they can't beat water world when it comes to a water parks so they should give up. Rebuild EG in another location between Denver and Colorado Springs and leave waht has to be left on site and operate it as a city park.
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MagnumMan
Posts: 1286
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6/14/2005 11:43:06 AM
That's a good idea. They made a mistake so they should fix it. I say move the park again to a more expandable location.
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
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6/14/2005 12:10:22 PM
i would still keep the location in the city though. Call it Elich Sqare and keep a few good rides and hard to move rides like some of the coasters. then operate it later open till 11:00-12:00 most summer night. open somtimes later to make up for late openings. slightly rase after 5 price. I'm sure you can get allot of peopel after work and also offer more gardins and free wifi witha walk around pass doring the day.
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Gosquan
Posts: 334
Registered: 6/21/2004
Rank: Silver Critic
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6/24/2005 12:06:13 PM
I heard several rumors at six flags great adventure being that I am a season pass holder. One is Viper is coming down for a new woodie similar to Boulder Dash. Another is Rolling Thunder is getting cleaned up and getting new restraints and fixing the track a bit. It got repainted in 2003. I also here that Scream Machine is finally getting new restraints and trains to stop head banging. More tents are going to be added to the Superman line. Medusa is getting repainted in 2006 as well as the Runaway Mine Train. Not sure about this but I heard the flume will be getting changed and themed with Bugs Bunny and all them on a ride similar to splash mountain and dudley do right. I hear Freefall has a high chance of coming down and becoming two towers. One a drop and the other one shoots you up. They also will be attempting to fix up Chiller so both will be open at the same time. Six Flags does a terrible job at running two great rides. I also hear some expansions for Looney Toons Seaport with some little kiddie rides. They are building a hotel. I also here that surprisingly they may open another theme park by 2009. They also will be retheming and renaming some lands.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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6/24/2005 12:21:58 PM
I'm sorry Gosquan, but you just make the worst posts of all time. A lot of that is old news there buddy.
The wooden coaster
I guess you don't get to the park too often ALL MIGHTY MR. SEASON PASS HOLDER because Viper is gone dude
Oh, and how can that ride be similar to Boulder Dash. Boulder Dash is built into a mountain.
Let's see, the Scream Machine is old. The Superman thing was mentioned last year and they haven't done it yet. Medusa and Mine Train getting done is old news. I heard something about Stuntman's Freefall just today, so I guess that is a good rumor, but the Chiller thing is so old.
Batman: Chiller
They haven't opened that side yet because they are having problems with getting the train ready and are still working on the LIM.
Cough cough The Hotel COUGH COUGH
Oh yeah, and I hear that they are putting in the World's Tallest and Fastest roller coaster too
I'm a season pass holder too by the way. We are a dime a dozen 
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
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6/24/2005 12:49:58 PM
One thing to mention for future posts is things like this shoudl be in the news forum. this is the critics area. its more general info and talks.
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Gosquan
Posts: 334
Registered: 6/21/2004
Rank: Silver Critic
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6/24/2005 1:13:35 PM
OK. I new they were old posts. I have two friends that work there. Im not stupid about the old posts. I go to the park every other day. Your so rude. Just because we know some rumors does not mean everyone else does. Now let me elaborate more.
The woodie will feature a 205 feet drop with several twists and turns.
The rolling thunder news has been out for about a month but no one has seemed to mention it here.
I am sure you heard about the restraints but the train thing was just decided a week ago at some Six Flags meeting. Thanks to my buddies John and Steve who work there.
Your most likely lieing about the Superman thing because that is kept a secret to the public.
Medusa and Mine Train getting re done was made final decision a week ago.
Im sure you didnt here about the flume thing.
The problem with the batman half of Chiller is the station launch wheel things break down when poor weather comes and forces it to be closed until they fix it up. It usually lasts about a month. They are covering it up so the wind and rain cannot get to it.
Robin has similar problems but they will have that fixed soon to make it load and run quicker.
The kiddie rides are new news.
The hotel will be Golden Kingdom themed
and will have a temple of tigers pool.
The new theme park will be more family oriented with a few coasters.
I hear the lands will be renamed so they fit the rides names.
Also the lines for the rides that go indoors will have AC or fixed AC. Such as Batman and Chiller.
So before you critizize please look at the facts of my posts. I admit sometimes I make idiotic posts like the Epcot VS. MGM and stuff but I really am one of the most knowledgeable posters. Besides Bobfunland and Mrceagle.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
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6/24/2005 1:29:57 PM
Oh ok.... I know a few people too, and they aren't the Dippin' Dots guys
I think some people might have my back on this one, but if not I don't care. I would like to think I'm one of the more knowledgable ones myself
I was a little rude too, I'm having a bad day... sorry. But, I hope that some of your things are wrong 
I wasn't lying about the Superman thing either, or the Medusa thing, or the other thing and this and that and the other thing. And we have discussed the Rolling Thunder thing. Try to navigate the site a little better buddy. Maybe people just aren't interested in talking about it.
Have a nice day.
Message updated 6/24/2005 1:36:41 PM by Hercules
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
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6/24/2005 1:45:51 PM
5 of the points that Gosquan makes have been talked about at length:
new woodie ,Rolling Thunder, Chiiler:Batman, Viper and Hotel in the rumors or news section.
However, so of the points he makes are new and as MRC has said, in the future points such as these whether rumors or news should be posted in the rumors or news section in the future for a couple of reasons.
1 - It keeps this thread on topic
2 - Keeps the whole site neater and more organized
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Danny
Posts: 6316
Registered: 5/23/2003
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6/24/2005 2:32:18 PM
Quote:
MagnumMan said:
I hate hearing that SF Darien Lake has so much room around it because I knew it was the truth. You can see all the space around the park when you drive by the area. It's in the middle of nowhere, for those who don't know (About a mile and a half away from the nearest exit). It's so sad that they are only developing heavily on 2 parks in the chain (3 Guesses Which Ones...) and leaving the others in the dust. I'm sure that has to result in a significant loss. It's common sense. Attendance just doesn't INCREASE when you don't add anything (of significance) to parks in years. Yet the company raises admission prices and cuts hours? They might as well just sell the parks "don't prefer" and save those, who look and see what's happening elsewhere in the company, the aggravation.
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I feel your pain. I was gonna go to SFDL with some friends yesterday, but we decided to see a movie instead. Two reasons why we didn't go - it would be expensive, and, in the words of my friend Ed, "It's not like there's anything new anyway."
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
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6/24/2005 2:51:34 PM
I'm nore rying ti help navigate. I hope I didn't ofend you. You news/rumers are verry good and I'm glad to hear many of them. I;m still a bit skeptical of a splash moutain style Flume at SF anyhting. jsut don't think they will let them put proper attention into it.
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Gosquan
Posts: 334
Registered: 6/21/2004
Rank: Silver Critic
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6/24/2005 3:56:07 PM
I myself think that the flume wont be as good as splash mountain, but better than it was before. I wasn't offended about the navigating thing because I talked about what they would do with their land. Oh and my friend Steve is one of the land managers and John works on Medusa. Hey the dippin dots guys are cool. LOL. The new Candy Bar Crunch tastes awesome. Well sorry for anything that I did. And have a good day.
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MagnumMan
Posts: 1286
Registered: 1/20/2002
Rank: Platinum Critic
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6/24/2005 4:04:58 PM
Quote:
Danny said:
I feel your pain. I was gonna go to SFDL with some friends yesterday, but we decided to see a movie instead. Two reasons why we didn't go - it would be expensive, and, in the words of my friend Ed, "It's not like there's anything new anyway." |
LOL. You saw a movie instead? That is too funny. Instead of an all day affair, you went to see a 2 hour movie. That shows the state of the park.
F.Y.I- I haven't SFDL visited in about 4 years...I'm not kidding...
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Red Rascal
Posts: 7284
Registered: 1/28/2003
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6/24/2005 5:54:46 PM
Quote:
MagnumMan said:
...F.Y.I- I haven't SFDL visited in about 4 years...I'm not kidding... |
Don't worry, not much has changed since then. 
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~ Coaster Count: 109 ~
What's life if you never get to the Point?
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Danny
Posts: 6316
Registered: 5/23/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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6/24/2005 9:18:40 PM
Quote:
MagnumMan said:
LOL. You saw a movie instead? That is too funny. Instead of an all day affair, you went to see a 2 hour movie. That shows the state of the park.
F.Y.I- I haven't SFDL visited in about 4 years...I'm not kidding... |
Yep, saw a movie and hung around for the rest of the day. I still want to go to the park though; I am hungry for a coaster...
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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6/26/2005 12:28:47 PM
I can agree wth you there. Winters are even worse.
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Cairn
Posts: 156
Registered: 3/22/2004
Rank: Bronze Critic
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6/26/2005 10:25:36 PM
Concerning the SFNE land owned in CT, there has been talks about using it for either a hotel, or a bridge coming from I-91 across the river to help funnel Six Flags traffic directly into the park and off the South End Bridge and Agawam Center.
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
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6/27/2005 1:01:28 AM
They would have to buy land that isn't for sale on the other side of a river and build a solid Mile of road includign a bridge.
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
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6/27/2005 9:57:15 AM
Quote:
mrceagle said:
They would have to buy land that isn't for sale on the other side of a river and build a solid Mile of road includign a bridge. |
Point of Interest - With the new Supreme Court ruling it doesn't matter if the land is for sale of not if it is deemed for the "public" good.
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darkridrMD
Posts: 720
Registered: 7/12/2004
Rank: Gold Critic
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6/29/2005 11:58:52 AM
Just to make a comment about checking old posts:
I don't think it's necessarily fair to berate someone for posting something that might have already been mentioned. Anyone who is relatively new here probably is not going to take the time to go through every old thing on the message boards. I know I wouldn't. If I've read something and someone posts the same thing again, I just skip it. No big deal.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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6/29/2005 12:22:33 PM
Well, if she didn't run around here like the short bus rider that she is, then I wouldn't have gotten on her. And she isn't that new to the site considering she signed up a year ago. Also, why be nice to someone who writes fake reviews and then lies about it? Normally I'm ok with new members and if they post something that has been mentioned before, I will ask them to refer to things in a nice manner as long as they had not caused some sort of rukus before. Then she has the nerve to run around thinking she is God for being a season pass holder, and oooooo she knows a ride op and a pizza maker or something.
Way to be on top of things Larry  I thought mrceagle wasn't making sense. I don't like the idea of a hotel at SFNE at all 
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