EagleUSA
Posts: 24
Registered: 8/28/2005
Rank: Coaster Critic
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 8/29/2005 10:18:02 PM
I don't understand why all the great classic woodies are at smaller parks and not in huge park chains like Six Flags, Disney, and Universal. Boulder Dash, Pheonix, and Hades are at smaller parks. Disney has the mine train Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. Universal has the Flying Unicorn if that's even a woodie I am not sure. Six Flags has Rolling Thunder and such all over the place. I know Great Adventure is getting the longest, fastest woodie but big and fast does not always mean everything. Most Six Flags Parks don't have landscaping so it would be ugly if put in an area that looked like a parking lot. Even Cedar Fair Parks lack good woodies. Dorney has Thunderhawk which is ok but not top notch. Cedar Point has Gemini which I feel is good but not great. They also have Blue Streak which is ok and Mean Streak which can be painful.
I would like to here other people's opinions on this.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/29/2005 10:41:09 PM
It is harder to make a commecial when you just make a good ride like Avalanche which you did not mention. They want to say tallest, fastest etc.
BTW has it been confirmed that Great Adventure wood coaster will be longer then beast.
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/29/2005 10:42:28 PM
EagleUSA - welcome to the forums
A much discussed topic: The big chains have taken over parks that had good wood and unfortunately sometimes tame them down, sometimes the big chain ruin them.
The Cyclone at Riverside park was consistently an ACE favorite an Six Flags runied it when the park become Riverside.
The Comet still runs well at SF Great Escape in many people's opinion. However, I wasn't overly impressed.
Probably the best wood at the chain parks are Shivering Timbers, Ghostrider and The Beast. Personally I love Roar at SF America. Other woodies with a following: SFoG's Great American Scream Machine and Georgia Cyclone, Texas Giant at SFoT, Thunder Run at SFKK
In my opinion the smaller parks are forced to upkeep their woodies because they can't afford to put in the Big Steel rides and when it comes to the general public they just want to ride the biggest and the fastest.
FYI: Big Thunder Mountain, Gemini and Flying Unicorn are all steel coasters on wood frames. Steel coasters run on steel track, wood coasters run on wood tracks. I made the same mistake when I first became an enthusiast.
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Mom always said, "Don't play ball in the house".
Message updated 8/29/2005 10:43:21 PM by larrygator
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Horizons12
Posts: 4860
Registered: 8/16/2002
Rank: Extragalactic Invader
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8/29/2005 10:47:12 PM
Probably because the big chains see steel coasters and small woodies as a smaller expense than a monster wooden coaster. It's all about $$$ with those big chains. Smaller parks may get a large quality wooden coaster so they can bring people back year after year without adding anything new for 3 or 4 years.
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Message updated 8/29/2005 10:48:16 PM by Horizons12
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hrrytraver
Posts: 1270
Registered: 7/16/2005
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/30/2005 10:19:02 AM
i agree. small parks seem to subsist on loyalty, from locals and coaster zealots. for instance, i will always return to astroland/coney, kennywood and knoebels regardless of new attractions. i love wood coasters and the fact that the parks are more affordable and generally quirky is a big plus. i *might* go to GAdv next year for that wood coaster, but man i tell you, the tix are very high, parking is 10bucks, food is awful and it's got long queues full of rowdy folks. i get virtually no pleasure from it, even if there's a few good coasters. small parks have done the algebra. news of a small park investing in a cool new woody or relocated classic will spread like wildfire through the coaster community and put that park on the map though in a somewhat "underground" way. but it doesn't make great copy for a hype heavy TV commercial - can you imagine a slick TV promo? - "...this summer...dropping 90 feet...speeds of 50 miles an hour...really cool direction changes...some cool head choppers...a dark tunnel..."
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/30/2005 11:49:21 AM
Quote:
coaster05 said:
BTW has it been confirmed that Great Adventure wood coaster will be longer then beast. |
Nothing has been confirmed yet as to anything in regards of this ride. There has been a good amount of prep work going on around the site however. But, I had not heard anything about it breaking a record in terms of length, the talk was always about height. The area that they have to build would not be able to have a coaster of that kind of track length unless it when up and over anything and everything. It just wouldn't work in terms of length. In terms of the height thing though, I'm not even really sure that it will break that either. Who cares anyway? What's a record other than bragging rights? Son of Beast has the height record and people hate that ride. As long as it is a good ride, I don't care about any records. Sorry about my babbling. In short, no, nothing has been said and I can't imagine anything of that magnitude going in there.
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"I could never design another ride like Hercules." - Curtis Summers
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adriahna
Posts: 4692
Registered: 6/4/2003
Rank: Site Moderator
Skooter Junkie
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8/30/2005 12:30:43 PM
Quote:
hrrytraver said:
i agree. small parks seem to subsist on loyalty, from locals and coaster zealots. for instance, i will always return to astroland/coney, kennywood and knoebels regardless of new attractions. i love wood coasters and the fact that the parks are more affordable and generally quirky is a big plus. i *might* go to GAdv next year for that wood coaster, but man i tell you, the tix are very high, parking is 10bucks, food is awful and it's got long queues full of rowdy folks. i get virtually no pleasure from it, even if there's a few good coasters. small parks have done the algebra. news of a small park investing in a cool new woody or relocated classic will spread like wildfire through the coaster community and put that park on the map though in a somewhat "underground" way. but it doesn't make great copy for a hype heavy TV commercial - can you imagine a slick TV promo? - "...this summer...dropping 90 feet...speeds of 50 miles an hour...really cool direction changes...some cool head choppers...a dark tunnel..." |
You put it PERFECTLY, traver - and your idea of the woodie commercial is PRICELESS.
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It's not a successful ride on the Flying Scooter unless you've got bruises to tell the story for you.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/30/2005 4:56:15 PM
Thanks Herc. That is what I thought but the person who started this thread has all these "facts" so I wanted to confirm I didn't miss something, before I called on him for a basis to that claim.
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taylorb251
Posts: 1181
Registered: 3/8/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/30/2005 8:43:10 PM
I think some of the big names do have great woodies. Michigan adverture has timbers that cedar fair owns. Pki has the beast. I don't think you can't leave those two woodies out.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/30/2005 9:08:33 PM
I agree but both of those were built before the big chains took them over.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/30/2005 9:28:29 PM
Right coaster05, and look at what they have done with The Beast. I talked to a guy in line for J2 on Friday and he said that the ride is nothing compared to what it used to be with the brakes and stuff that are on the thing now.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/30/2005 9:30:40 PM
I agree since I used to visit PKI yearly before Paramount they have definately sucked some life out of the Beast. It is still very good, but not like it was.
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ibluv
Posts: 2354
Registered: 7/15/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/31/2005 11:12:38 PM
At least it hasn't yet been mutilated to the point of worthlessness like the Cyclone at SFNE. I still get sad when I think about what a great ride it once was.
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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9/6/2005 1:07:32 PM
Smaller parks can put more time into the rides and this makes for a better coaster ovr all. they look to ad somethign great and not jsut somthign recordbreacking.
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tacoking
Posts: 9914
Registered: 2/19/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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9/6/2005 1:43:44 PM
Quote:
larrygator said:
FYI: Big Thunder Mountain, Gemini and Flying Unicorn are all steel coasters on wood frames. Steel coasters run on steel track, wood coasters run on wood tracks. I made the same mistake when I first became an enthusiast. |
Flying Unicorn has no wood with it...except for the station, obviously. It's all steel. 
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
Rank: Platinum Critic
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9/6/2005 1:53:37 PM
Quote:
tacoking said:
Flying Unicorn has no wood with it...except for the station, obviously. It's all steel. |
my bad tacoking, I only rode it once so I don't remember the structure well but the guy that started the thread mentioned it so I lumped it in there with the other steel coasters on wood frames.
wow that's the first time I have ever been wrong about anything and it feels good
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tacoking
Posts: 9914
Registered: 2/19/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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9/6/2005 1:55:24 PM
Just be happy I proved you wrong in a nice way.
Just kiddin' there Larry.
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
Rank: Platinum Critic
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9/6/2005 1:59:50 PM
Quote:
tacoking said:
Just be happy I proved you wrong in a nice way.
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actually that might be a first for you, too
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tacoking
Posts: 9914
Registered: 2/19/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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9/6/2005 2:02:17 PM
Ah, I'm sorry. It won't happen again. 
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coasterwom
Posts: 1446
Registered: 3/23/2001
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/10/2006 11:55:01 PM
The big chains have good woodies also but most of the smaller parks put wood in because it's cheaper to build then a steel coaster.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/11/2006 2:26:53 AM
That doesn't even answer the question. The question was asking why there are so many good woodies at small parks and not so many at the bigger ones. It had absolutely nothing to do with money or anything like that.
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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5/13/2006 6:28:37 PM
That was mostly Answered in teh first reply. the big, fast, Steep, coasters. There more markitable and in some cases is a huge park like SFGAdv put in a basic but very good woodie some people woudl complain that they didn't do more.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/13/2006 6:58:49 PM
Herc you are forgetting with coasterwom the fun is not in the answer, the fun is in watching your post count ride.
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BobFunland
Posts: 7962
Registered: 8/9/2001
Rank: Site Moderator
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5/14/2006 2:00:33 AM
^ I'm sorry to even say this, but I actually burst out laughing reading that post. Forgive me, I thought MRC was saying that! (chalk it up to late-night fatigue)
I love this site.
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erinys
Posts: 230
Registered: 9/28/2005
Rank: Bronze Critic
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5/14/2006 12:38:30 PM
Different direction. I'm new to this addiction so most of my knowledge is SF. With SF's change to 'family,' I would guess that moderate woodies would fit with that plan. They are less expensive to build (not sure about maintenance costs though) and seem to be perceived as less intense for youngsters than the big steel. I know it's not in SF immediate plans to build new coasters, but a couple years down the road wouldn't that be a cost-effective way to keep families coming for something new without going more deeply into debt?
I'd hope for a Wild Mouse here and there for the same effect, too.
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