sharkbait
Posts: 48
Registered: 8/31/2005
Rank: Coaster Critic
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 5/4/2008 4:53:21 PM
I've been to SFGAdv three times this season so far. They have a new rule that was not in place last year- no loose articles allowed in the station while you ride. In theory, it doesn't sound too bad- after all, no one wants their stuff to get stolen. But in practice? It means either everyone forks over all their junk to an unfortunate non-rider, OR you pay $1 to rent a temporary locker, conveniently located outside each major ride!
When I went on my first coaster of the season, Nitro, I wasn't aware of this new rule, and when I tried to put my backpack to the side, the attendent made me get off, put my stuff in the lockers, and get back to the end of the line. (Thankfully it was short at the time!) But needless to say, I was pissed. When I asked her and several other park employees why they implemented this ridiculous new rule, they cited safety as the main factor. However, people are still allowed to leave their shoes in the station, so I doubt that's really the reason- safety-wise, what's the difference between a shoe (allowed) or a water bottle, stuffed animal, etc (not allowed)? It's probably just another way to scam parkgoers out of even more money, as if the $60 ticket and $15 parking and $4 waters aren't enough.
What especially pisses me off is that last season, Nitro had this nifty new (FREE) locker system within the station. It was color-coordinated by train, so they would open right as you boarded the train and remain locked until your train got back. It was a great system, and I was hoping they would add it to other rides, but instead they removed it and added a pay locker to every ride.
I know the obvious solution would be to put things in my pocket instead, but as a female I don't own any pants/shorts with secure pockets ("secure" meaning they can be buttoned closed so wallets/cellphones/etc dont go flying off the ride) so I was forced to use these dumb lockers. In fact, the locker machine gives you a receipt for your locker to scan and reopen it later, and I had to stuff them into my shoe because I had no where else to put it!
The ride lockers are $1 and have a 2-hour time limit. Once you reopen them, they're done and you have to buy a new one. You can also rent an all-day locker for $10 that you can open and reopen all day. These ones are right by the entrance/exit though, so if you were going to do that you might as well save ten bucks and put the stuff in your car instead.
I know Six Flags is in a lot of debt and they need $$ badly, but IMO this is not the way to go about it. If people can't carry around their wallets all the time, they're certainly not going to have much motivation to buy a souvenir or play a game or whatever. And if people dont have their cameras with them, they're not going to take as many pictures, which is essentially turning down free advertising (especially when you consider that many of these pics would end up on popular sites like Flickr or Facebook). And of course this is going to piss off the customers, who will vent about their frustrations to other potential visitors. Of course, it's not going to stop die-hards like us from going on the coasters we want to go on, but for the less coaster-obsessed, crappy customer service like this could certainly make the difference between a trip to Great Adventure or a trip to Hersheypark or Dorney.
What do you guys think about this? Is SFGAdv the only park doing this, or are there others as well?
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Horizons12
Posts: 4860
Registered: 8/16/2002
Rank: Extragalactic Invader
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 5/4/2008 6:13:11 PM
I'm pretty sure a few other Six Flags parks are doing this, I'm not sure if all are. But I definately think it's all a money making idea. Some people will say that it makes dispatches faster without people putting stuff off to the side; I really don't see the difference though.
I've actually been hearing about people hiding their souvenier cups in the bushes to get around paying $1 a ride.
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Message updated 5/4/2008 6:13:54 PM by Horizons12
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sharkbait
Posts: 48
Registered: 8/31/2005
Rank: Coaster Critic
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5/5/2008 7:55:43 PM
Quote:
Horizons12 said:
I'm pretty sure a few other Six Flags parks are doing this, I'm not sure if all are. But I definately think it's all a money making idea. Some people will say that it makes dispatches faster without people putting stuff off to the side; I really don't see the difference though.
I've actually been hearing about people hiding their souvenier cups in the bushes to get around paying $1 a ride. |
Hm, well at least Great Adventure's not the only one. Not that I endorse this stupid new system, but misery loves company. 
And I agree, the dispatch times definitely aren't any faster than usual. And I don't think hiding stuff in the bushes is really the best idea, but at the same time I don't blame them- charging any amount of money just to store a water bottle for a couple minutes is just plain unnecessary, especially when they had a more convenient, free system last year, at least at Nitro. The other ones you could just put your stuff in a regular cubby/bin, which I understand has a risk of things being stolen, but I've personally never had any problems- and besides, that's the riders responsibility anyway. If these pay lockers were optional I wouldn't have a problem with it, but they're not.
Message updated 5/5/2008 7:56:04 PM by sharkbait
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/5/2008 9:59:00 PM
I love the new system as people's absolute stupidity really annoys me. All you have to do is place the items in a locker, or do like I do and not carry stuff to the park you can't fit in your pocket. I mean it is a dollar.
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Scott
Posts: 2766
Registered: 11/7/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/6/2008 10:52:47 PM
^ well, she did say that since she's a female she doesn't have any pockets.
And since you can't re-use the 1 dollar locker, it ends up being 5-10 dollars by the end of the day if you go on a-lot of rides...
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/7/2008 6:36:04 AM
^Last I checked my wife is a woman and we have figured it out. This is a very small issue that people are turning into a very large one.
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Horizons12
Posts: 4860
Registered: 8/16/2002
Rank: Extragalactic Invader
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5/7/2008 11:01:23 AM
No see, a good idea would have been to place lockers in front of the rides that are free for X amount of time. Like what Islands of Adventure does. That would keep all the benefits of not having loose article in the station and keeps guests happy.
This is what Jay Thomas, the President of SFMM has to say about the lockers however:
Quote:
"We are doing our very best to make sure you do not enter the queue line with loose articles. My only intent here is to train riders to not bring anything into a line or onto a ride." |
To train riders to not bring stuff into line? It's like we're dogs or something. Barring some patrons kind of are, but that's beside the point.
Message updated 5/7/2008 11:02:12 AM by Horizons12
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/7/2008 11:23:58 AM
^How much more is a one day pass to IOA as opposed to a SF park. You are not comparing things that are equal. I also totally agree with Jay. There is NO reason to be bringing the amount of stuff that some people bring into the line. Seriously, if you have enough money to buy that much crap you have enough money to pony up the dollar for the locker.
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taylorb251
Posts: 1181
Registered: 3/8/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/7/2008 4:12:31 PM
When I was at IOA a couple of years ago they made my wife put her bag in a locker and it wasn't free.
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Scott
Posts: 2766
Registered: 11/7/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/7/2008 10:00:06 PM
Quote:
coaster05 said:
^How much more is a one day pass to IOA as opposed to a SF park. You are not comparing things that are equal. I also totally agree with Jay. There is NO reason to be bringing the amount of stuff that some people bring into the line. Seriously, if you have enough money to buy that much crap you have enough money to pony up the dollar for the locker. |
IOA 1 day ticket - 69$
SFGADV - 60$
But, IOA is without a doubt the better park experience. And lockers are free.
I really don't like the changes mark shapiro has brought... Tons of flat rides have been removed from six flags parks, and admission has gone way up. 
If you figure that lockers will cost you 5-10 dollars a day extra, IOA really looks like the better deal.
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sharkbait
Posts: 48
Registered: 8/31/2005
Rank: Coaster Critic
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5/7/2008 10:18:19 PM
Quote:
Horizons12 said:
No see, a good idea would have been to place lockers in front of the rides that are free for X amount of time. Like what Islands of Adventure does. That would keep all the benefits of not having loose article in the station and keeps guests happy. |
That would be a good idea- that way people could store their things while waiting in line without taking advantage of it and leaving it there all day. Although they would definitely have to take into account the average queue time for every ride.
Coaster05, the fact that it's $1 doesn't bother me (although it can add up if you go on a lot of rides, as scott pointed out), it just bothers me that they're charging any money at all for a service that should be completely free, and WAS completely free last year with Nitro's color-coordinated lockers in the station. We pay more than enough for tickets, parking, overpriced food/water, ride photos, etc. and we shouldn't have to pay a "coaster tax" in addition to that.
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sharkbait
Posts: 48
Registered: 8/31/2005
Rank: Coaster Critic
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5/7/2008 10:34:04 PM
Quote:
Scott said:
I really don't like the changes mark shapiro has brought... Tons of flat rides have been removed from six flags parks, and admission has gone way up.
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I definitely agree with you about the flats. I can think of at least a dozen flats they're removed since I started going there regularly around 2000 or so. I never got the chance to ride some of them, either. Shame, cause Evolution looked awesome!  I mean don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of all the new coasters they've added since then, but I just feel like more flats would balance it out a little more. The only "thrilling" one still running IMO is the Twister, which at least has a pretty good capacity/fast loading.
The price doesn't affect me too much since I have a season pass, but it's still pretty a dramatic increase. But the good thing is, most people can combat that with Coke cans (buy 1 get 1 free with a can) and coupons from fast food places and the like.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/8/2008 6:33:23 AM
Scott I just don't see how the lockers could come to 10 dollars a day, if I have not used a locker yet. Everybody has a right to complain about this policy, but I just don't see it being a big deal. BTW my season pass hasn't went up in a couple years so I don't really buy the increased costs. I am also curious if you guys go to IOA for that awesome collection of flats. Let's see there is um...
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/8/2008 9:53:58 AM
I must disagree with anyone who thinks the dispatch times on rides is not quicker at SFGAdv with the no loose article policy.
I think they should also institute a policy whereby you have to wear shoes at all times.
I have been to SFGAdv twice this year SFFT once. At all major rides there has been an park employee stopping people with bags outside the major rides telling them about lockers.
Regarding shorts for females with secure pockets. A friend of mine had the same problem. When I told her of the new policy she searched in vain for a week trying to find shorts with secure pockets and ended up buying a pair from the boy's department at Target.
Very few people pay $60 to get into SFGAdv.
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BobFunland
Posts: 7962
Registered: 8/9/2001
Rank: Site Moderator
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5/8/2008 4:25:52 PM
Quote:
Scott said:
But, IOA is without a doubt the better park experience. And lockers are free. |
I agree! But to be fair, there are actually good discounts for Great Adventure.
Quote:
sharkbait said:
I definitely agree with you about the flats. I can think of at least a dozen flats they're removed since I started going there regularly around 2000 or so. |
In all fairness, Shapiro and his crew have only been around since 2006.
I think the flat ride discussion should take place in a few years.. yeah, they are removing a lot, but they could and likely are going to bring in replacements. Give that time..
Quote:
it just bothers me that they're charging any money at all for a service that should be completely free |
Why do you feel entitled to a free locker? All people want is free, free, free but there still are costs involved in a locker operation. Granted, a dollar easily covers it. I dunno.. its a dollar. And a dollar that I don't mind paying when it decreases the chances of my camera getting stolen on the loading dock by about 1000%
Quote:
taylor said:
When I was at IOA a couple of years ago they made my wife put her bag in a locker and it wasn't free. |
The lockers near the water rides aren't free. OMG! What a brilliant idea! Exploiting demand!
Quote:
larrygator said:
I think they should also institute a policy whereby you have to wear shoes at all times. |
die.
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Message updated 5/8/2008 4:27:16 PM by BobFunland
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/8/2008 5:31:14 PM
I agree with Larry. The last time I was at SFOG this tall, gangly kid kept having to leave Goliath to put his flip flops off to the side. Just buy a pair of strapped sandals. Oh and lock your door, hilljack.
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/8/2008 5:51:32 PM
OK any type of footwear that stays on your feet, like strapped sandals, should be allowed.
I know that gangly kid. He just told me to die!
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Message updated 5/9/2008 10:42:07 AM by larrygator
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/8/2008 6:10:15 PM
Not to mention the coolest coaster kids always wear strapped sandals.
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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5/9/2008 2:53:25 PM
My turn to chime in!
I'm a bit upset by the lockers. Big surprise right! They might help with loading time but not much. I doubt they will get the dramatic change they feel they will. I eve heard of a 200pph increase on Superman. I also agree they are much more secure then the bins at the stations.
This move seems to has far more to do about money then it dose about ride safety and load times. Why would load times be a concern anyone not liking the wait is encouraged to invest more and get a Flash Pass. If money wasn't an issue The charge wouldn't be a Dollar for a locker that is only good for 1 ride at a 160 minutes of wait time. There is no reason the lockers can't be a quarter or as low as .10 cents. money is their reasoning. I was wondering how they planed to get another 5.50 out of every guest to create there dream of positive cash flow. but know I see how they plan to. by continuing to pinch their guests for all they have.
As for the Sandals statements, I agree completely. They require guests wearing classes to wear sports straps to keep them on . It should be required on foot wear as well.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/9/2008 6:26:08 PM
I have not used a bin at a park in a long time. I just don't trust my stuff being exposed to that many people. I am stunned at how many people think this is going to make the park big money. It is a locker for a dollar, that you don't have to use if you take care of your crap. Or don't have so much crap. I really believe they are tired of people milling around the platform after they are done riding, and gumming up the works.
This policy is not a big isuue for one simple reason. You don't have to bring massive crap with you in the park. If they made you get a locker for your keys that would be a scam, making you get a locker for the huge things you are carrying that won't fit into your pockets is good common sense and a benefit to the park guests who are not idiots.
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Horizons12
Posts: 4860
Registered: 8/16/2002
Rank: Extragalactic Invader
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5/9/2008 9:53:28 PM
You don't think all of those dollars add up? I bet they could come away from this season with hundreds of thousands off the lockers alone.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/9/2008 11:53:43 PM
You are out of your mind. Again this issue got beat to death on TPR and now it is over here. WTF are you carrying around that won't fit in your pocket?
As for HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of dollars are you actually saying that 10-20% of the parks attendance is really going to need these.
Again I just don't get it. I go to parks ALL the time, so do Larry and Joe and we never seem to need these. I am tired of watching morons carry basketballs, stuffed animals and giant drinks into the line. Then fiddle with them in the bins, then look for their crap when the ride ends, all the while causing people who know how to handle their stuff having to wait for these morons. To be honest I wish all parks had these policies. not to mention you know when something gets lost or stolen from the bins these same morons bitch up a storm.
Or here is an idea. If you want to play games, win prizes and buy stuff from the gift shop do it in the middle of the day when lines are longest. Take your stuff to your car, leave it there, come back in and enjoy the park and save your 5.00 in locker fees.
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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5/10/2008 6:49:30 PM
Look at it this year. Even if 2 people from each train needed to use a locker. thats 1 in 18. Thats $66 dollars an hour just for superman. take off $10 dollars towards lockers and the attendant. they still make 560 a day at Superman alone. over a 120 day season that's 67,200 dollars on Superman alone. They have these at 4 other rides. even if they could only Double that about over those 4 other attraction they have maid over 100K
Now I know a number of Females that carrey around at least a small bag. I know a few people that need Epi pens and carry then in a small but back which is also required to be in a locker. You mentioned the Big Cups. The park promotes those refillable cups with free refills that day and dollar refills in the future. Guess what in the locker they must go. I agree many people carry around more then they need but this is a bit overkill.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/10/2008 10:02:28 PM
They have this policy at SFOG this year on Goliath and there was next to no one using the lockers there is NE F'in Way it is 2 per train. you have lost your mind. Not to mention my wife wore a hip sack and they had no problem with that. I saw these amazing pair of Nike cargo shorts today that you could smuggle a child onto the ride in those pockets. Buy a new pair of shorts and ignore the locker policy.
My views on the pop will never change. They give out free water, the pop is way to expensive and one of the worst things you can drink on a summer's day. I don't buy the souvenir cups and if you think about it the biggest users of the cups will be pass holders who are getting into the park for free, getting .99 cent refils and probably skipping the parking fee at their home park. If you have all that going for you spending 10.00 amongst a group of pass holders for a locker is not a big deal and never will be.
And for the last time if you all hate this policy so much then STAY THE FU#$ HOME and express your displeasure with your wallet. If enough people agree with you then they will change the policy, or write SF a letter instead of crying about on TPR and TPC. But don't ask me to sign the letter because I love this policy.
Rich "I don't need 1,500 soda calories a day" Bitner
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sharkbait
Posts: 48
Registered: 8/31/2005
Rank: Coaster Critic
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5/10/2008 10:40:05 PM
For the record, this is what I carry around the park, in order of importance (all inside of an adjustable-string backpack
-Wallet with cash, license, season pass, debit card, etc
-Sunscreen (I do put it on before I get there, but if I don't reapply constantly throughout the day I get burned).
-Cell phone: In case we're in groups and want to split up and meet somewhere, check in, etc.
-Camera- I'm starting a coaster blog, but all decent pics of coasters I find on the net seem to have very strict copyright laws, so I figure I'd take some of my own. If I'm with friends we'll want to take pictures together also.
-Refillable cup: This year, it was a "free gift" for everyone who got a season pass. You get free refills the rest of the day, and .99 refills the rest of the season with it, which I think is a nice deal.
-Souvenirs: Sometimes I'll buy on-ride photos or a t-shirt- nothing huge or impractical.
So that might sound like a lot, but as you can see, everything has a purpose. It's not like I'm toting around a jumbo stuffed animal or something. Obviously, none of those things would fit in my shoes (aside from the cash, which I have done before), and even if I were to buy a pair of men's cargo shorts, I'd probably only be able to fit my wallet and cell phone in one pocket and a camera in the other. That's all my boyfriend could fit in his pockets, anyway. (Although for him personally it's even less since he keeps one pocket free for his glasses). But a refillable cup or a ride photo with one of those big borders? Forget it, they wouldn't fit unless your entire leg was a pocket!
It's not so much the "no loose articles" rule I can't stand. And while I've personally never had any problems leaving my stuff in unsecured bins, I can definitely understand why that would be an issue, and the lockers are definitely more secure. What bothers me is that they had started a FREE, secure, organized locker sysetm at Nitro last year (which everyone liked and I assumed would start spreading to other major rides) but they took it away and started charging $$$ for it just to make a quick buck. If they only charged extra for oversized things that wouldn't fit in those lockers, I wouldn't have a problem with it- but charging to store a water bottle or a purse is ludicrous. Like I said. I understand the company is in debt and needs money badly, but I think better customer service and not blatantly ripping people off like this would help them more in the long run than a quick burst of profit now.
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
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5/11/2008 12:06:31 AM
If they wanted to get out of debt quickly they would be charging more than $1 for 2 hours for a locker.
Does anybody know for sure that SF even keeps 100% of each $1 from the lockers. Knowing their bad fiscal policy they probably have it outsourced and only get .10 cents per locker.
To raise more money they could raise season pass prices to $125 a year, closing to Cedar Fair.
As far as them making more money from the lockers. Yes, I contributd $1 in my 4 visits to SF parks this year, and this was only because I did not wish to walk back to my car to put away my sweatshirt when to temperature increased 20 degrees. However I'm not buying a refillable drink bottle the limit my locker usage.
Also if the locker fees discourage people from buying big drinks, buying souvenirs, buying on-ride photos or playing games that will decrease the money that SF makes.
It is a great policy, now if they could just fix the line cutting.
FYI - 220 more pph on S:ROS @ SFNE sounds like a big improvement to me.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/11/2008 12:14:32 AM
It is 1.00 if you can't afford that then don't go. I did like the free locker system on Nitro, but again people would stand around and just took forever. It is not worth the hassle to me and IMO it made the park experience worse for someone like me who didn't bring anything to the park. My wife and I carry my wallet, cell phone, camera, hat, sunscreen, allergy medicine, etc. Hip sack and pockets are all we need. How many on ride photos do you need to buy in your life, plus a lot of parks allow you to print at home or pick up at the end of the day. Same with the souvenirs, you can buy as you are leaving or take them to your car. You are now down to the soda. You think the refil is a good deal and that is fine, but here is another way to look at it. You now pay 1.99 to refil your drink. (.99 refil and 1.00 for locker) isn't that still cheaper then buying a soda?
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Canobie Coaster
Posts: 2694
Registered: 7/26/2005
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/11/2008 11:05:22 AM
The lockers potentially could be annoying for those who carry a lot into the park, but they really aren't bad for me since I don't carry much. I did find that they cut down the confusion in the station and that they were getting a huge business.
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Horizons12
Posts: 4860
Registered: 8/16/2002
Rank: Extragalactic Invader
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5/11/2008 12:14:36 PM
This has absolutely nothing to do with one dollar being expensive. It's the principle of forcing people, who have even one loose item, to use the lockers and then charging them to use it.
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
Rank: Platinum Critic
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5/11/2008 12:34:19 PM
One other thing to note is people who in the past lingered on the platform near the lockers only to jump in the extras seats and get rerides. Sometimes these lurkers who just got off the ride tried to jump into the seats of people who were putting their stuff in the lockers.
While I never saw this cause a fight, it angered guests who waited for a ride and then had to confront someone trying to take their seat.
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